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MP wants referendum on NZ anti-smacking law
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Garth Offline
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RE: MP wants referendum on NZ anti-smacking law
I am not all that familiar with British politics but the referendum they had on leaving the EU may have been a mistake. With kids parents have a responsibility to ensure their safety until they are mature enough to make responsible decisions on their own. Spanking both younger children and sometimes teenagers clearly sets the boundaries of the relationship and we are only fooling ourselves if we think it is equal!

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03-30-2017 11:00 AM
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Kaitie Offline
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RE: MP wants referendum on NZ anti-smacking law
(03-30-2017 11:00 AM)Garth Wrote:  I am not all that familiar with British politics but the referendum they had on leaving the EU may have been a mistake.
It would be political to weigh in on if brexit was good or bad, and it would also almost definitely be above my paygrade to offer a super serious opinion when I'm not British. But it is a very good example of referendum's and their weaknesses. In that case it was a non-binding referendum that, really, was binding. Because how could parliament not follow through on what the vote was? If they insisted on deciding by referendum, it needed to be binding all along (to maximize the voter turnout and to maximize voter awareness of consequences.....both of which were high anyway, but need to be maximized). Meanwhile, a more trustworthy system would be to let parliament decide. Let pro brexit people vote for pro brexit mps, and the stay people vote for anti brexit mps. That leads to discussion, compromise, thought, and a long term decision. Not a decision based on a majority of people who chose to vote on a SINGLE day.....especially when (polls show) that vote would have been different if run two weeks before or two weeks after. Its one thing to say "the clock is what matters" when one team happens to be ahead when the buzzer goes off in basketball. Doing so in matters of state is entirely different.

If we wanted a TRUE democracy we'd decide EVERYthing by referendum. But we don't because the shortcomings of referendums are blatantly obvious once you study even a tiny bit of political statistics or political theory. So if we know that, and if that is why we don't settle most things by referendum, then why do we randomly do it for things haphazardly?



* apologies....I was a poli sci minor in college so this struck an interest lol

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03-30-2017 11:05 AM
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Garth Offline
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Post: #13
RE: MP wants referendum on NZ anti-smacking law
Another example might be to have referendum on capital punishment. Here in Canada we have let our Parliament decide the issue which I believe was the best course of action.

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03-30-2017 01:28 PM
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Anymouse Offline
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Post: #14
RE: MP wants referendum on NZ anti-smacking law
(03-30-2017 11:05 AM)Kaitie Wrote:  Meanwhile, a more trustworthy system would be to let parliament decide. Let pro brexit people vote for pro brexit mps, and the stay people vote for anti brexit mps. That leads to discussion, compromise, thought, and a long term decision.

Indeed; but that is what Tory MPs were afraid of: UK Independence Party taking their seats as the most Brexit party. So they did the referendum to take the wind out of UKIP sails, and (they hoped) avoid having to actually leave the EU. Now they are committed to UKIPs main goal, of course.

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03-30-2017 03:35 PM
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Frankie Offline
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RE: MP wants referendum on NZ anti-smacking law
(03-30-2017 11:00 AM)Garth Wrote:  I am not all that familiar with British politics but the referendum they had on leaving the EU may have been a mistake.

As a British citizen, I'd like to know why you think this?

The logic was simple; that as we had a referendum to decide to join what was then a "common market" and not a political union, so to decide whether or not to remain required a second referendum.

Referendums have not otherwise been part of the British democratic process (though the Scots are bidding to change that) but as the issue was not party-political and the only other way to test public opinion here is by a general election (which is party-political) it doesn't seem there was much alternative.

In fact, the governing party argued strongly for remaining in the European Union (and probably would not have called the referendum if they thought they would not get a favourable verdict) but were unable to convince the majority. Had there been no campaigning, I strongly suspect the majority to leave would have been much higher. What will be will be.

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03-30-2017 04:27 PM
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Alex Offline
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Post: #16
RE: MP wants referendum on NZ anti-smacking law
I can see this (pardon my language) descending into a sh*tfest pretty quickly!

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03-31-2017 04:16 AM
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Garth Offline
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Post: #17
RE: MP wants referendum on NZ anti-smacking law
Lol. I try not to argue when it comes to politics. To each his own.

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03-31-2017 09:54 AM
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Casey Offline
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Post: #18
RE: MP wants referendum on NZ anti-smacking law
(03-29-2017 06:04 PM)Jono Wrote:  they actually already had referendim on this a few years after law pass. i think i was like 12. i 10 when law first passed.

Jono is right there was a citizens-inititated referendum in 2009 asking "Should a smack as part of good parental correction be a criminal offence in New Zealand?"

According to the results, 11.98% of valid votes were Yes votes, and 87.4% of votes were No votes. Voter turnout was 56.09%, and 0.1% of votes were invalid.

The referendum is non-binding, so Government does not need to act. Both Government and Opposition said they would not be repelling the law. Those in favour twist the statistics a little bit saying over 80% of NZers support a return to smacking - when in fact its 87% of a 56% turnout.

I don't remember the passing of the first bill or the referendum as I was young - this info is from Wikipedia.

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03-31-2017 07:00 PM
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Anymouse Offline
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Post: #19
RE: MP wants referendum on NZ anti-smacking law
I continue to be amazed at New Zealand's law in this area; this is a very different context than Sweden or Germany where the people seem to broadly agree with the government. I know your Aunt certainly does not support this regulation!

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04-01-2017 12:49 PM
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